Banned from UBX Training Gym – For What ??

Banned from UBX Training Gym – For What ??

by | Jul 14, 2023 | Exercise, Milestones

WARNING – This post has become very very long (and getting longer)… Unfortunately, what should have been a very simple story, and not worth posting about at all, has evolved into a bit of a Saga – mostly due to the horrendous way an alleged complaint against me to UBX Greenslopes has been handled…. Despite Permanently Banning me from the gym, UBX have still not deemed it necessary to tell me what I apparently did wrong… This post is about my thoughts, feelings and disgust at the way this has been handled – with the aim of ensuring no-one else is treated so poorly by UBX in future.

Summary

This summary does not contain the full context or details of the entire situation, but it provides an overview of my experiences and feelings throughout the suspension and complaint process.

I have been a long-term fan and member of UBX for over four years, with more than 1300 visits to the UBX Greenslopes Gym, and attribute some of my significant weight loss and improved fitness level to the training provided by UBX.

However, out of the blue, my membership was suspended following a phone call from the UBX Greenslopes owner, who stated that a complaint had been filed against me. The nature of the complaint (who, what, when) was not disclosed, neither was I informed (until recently) of the complaints process.

I was shocked and confused by the suspension, as I was completely unaware of any incident that could have led to such a complaint. I attempted to communicate with the gym owner and seek information about the complaint process and the nature of the complaint, but received no response initially.

I continued to press for information about the complaint and the status of the suspension, and was eventually informed that I had been “permanently banned”. I was concerned about potential motives behind the complaint (and whether or not it was even true) and wondered why the complainant didn’t approach them directly to resolve any issues, or the gym didn’t ask for my side of the story.

Thankfully , I have received great support from fellow gym members, who were also surprised by the situation.

Eventually UBX HQ responded and promised to investigate the complaint further and work towards a resolution, and I was eventually provided with the UBX Complaints Process (after I had been banned and my membership terminated) but still did not receive any details about the complaint.

I am determined to know the truth about the complaint and have sought clarity from UBX HQ. They have expressed their belief that a fair resolution and transparent complaints process were essential for both members and the gym, and, to their credit, have acknowledged issues with how this has been handled, and agreed to react to feedback. I hope they do.

I am still oblivious to the nature of the complaint, have not been asked for my side of the story, or been give any right of reply, and actually have my doubts whether a valid complaint actually exists, but am determine to find out the truth.

Monday 10th July – “You Have Been Suspend Subject to an Investigation”

I’ve been a long term fan of UBX (formerly know as 12 Round Fitness). I have been a member of the UBX Greenslopes Gym for more than 4 years and have had more than 1300 visits. I love the way their exercise program is setup and attribute a chunk of my weight loss (55kg), and current level of fitness to the training I have done there….

UBX training is an important part of the reason I have been able to maintain my weight loss for so long (nearly 5 years) and I am now probably the fittest and healthiest I have been for more than 30 years…. so to be told.. out of the blue.. that my membership had been Suspended came as quite a shock.

Gym Membership Suspended

On Monday 10th July, I received a brief (but shocking) phone call from the UBX Greenslopes owner (AJ), saying that they had received a complaint about me, that my gym membership had been suspended, and that I wouldn’t be able to attend the gym until further notice … I was stunned …

He went on to say that for “confidentiality” reasons he wasn’t able to say who had complained, when it had occurred, or what the complaint actually was, and that he had to follow a “process” in case it went legal.

I was immediately concerned and worried about what may have occurred to be serious enough for me to be suspended, and that could potentially go legal ????

I wracked my brain for any incident or situation that may have resulted in someone being uncomfortable – and could not come up with a single thing.

I was told that the complainant had also been suspended subject to a review of the complaint, but was NOT told :

  • what the complaint process entailed
  • how long it might take
  • when I would be told what the allegation was
  • when I would have a chance to respond
  • or whether he suspension was temporary or permanent

Oh My God … What just happened

I left the phone call feeling numb.. I didn’t know what had just happened… Suddenly I was torn from my daily routine (I usually go to the gym up to 2 hrs a day – 6 days a week) – to being banned (perhaps forever) … I didn’t know what I had done… I didn’t know who I had upset.. I didn’t know how serious this was (but had to assume the worst).

I reviewed my gym sessions for the last 2 weeks in my head and tried to remember everyone I had spoken to… a wrote down a list of every female (at least I assume the complainant is female) that I had spoken to and thought through each interaction and came up with nothing that could be considered remotely inappropriate.

What’s Going On ??

I sent an email back to AJ that afternoon asking for information about the complaints process, and included a list of people I had spoken to in the last fortnight and told him I was very happy for him to speak to any of them about this issue… No Response

I started worrying about what AJ had said about “if this goes legal” so sought legal advice and sent another email off to AJ asking for the following – and again – No Response :

  • Details of the complaints process
  • The nature of the complaint
  • Where and when it occurred
  • The impact on the complainant
  • What the complainant is seeking as an outcome / resolution

Since then I have messaged daily to try and find out the status of this, and heard nothing until late Thursday (13th July) when AJ messaged me with “I’m expecting to hear back from HR today sometime.”…

Gym Etiquette

The social aspect of the gym has (surprisingly) become important to me…. I do tend to chat to people… I think I am pretty indiscriminate about who I talk to… but I am very aware, that as an older guy (nearly 60) I need to be careful how/when I talk to young females or it could be misconstrued (no-one wants to be “that creepy guy at the gym”).

I have on occasion, realised that someone didn’t want to chat – they wanted to focus on their training…That’s absolutely fine and reasonable.. I get it… and there are some people at the gym, I simply acknowledge and don’t engage with… no problem.

But Why ?

I was concerned how I could have done something to annoy someone so much to make a complaint – without being aware of it … Am I really that clueless ? Surely if I made someone uncomfortable, the first option would be to ask me to back off rather than raise a formal complaint ?

I began to wonder why anyone would do this? What’s the point of submitting a complaint ? What would they get out of it ? Is this a real complaint because I actually upset someone, or is it just part of some “master plan” to get me out of the gym ? Or is someone simply using this as an excuse to cancel their gym membership?

I can’t think of ANYONE that I have upset… and if I did I would have done my damndest to resolve it.

How am I feeling?

I’ve been on an emotional rollercoaster.. (probably partially fueled by the lack of endorphins I am used to getting from training )

I am sad, upset, confused…
I am concerned, worried, frustrated…
I am anxious, depressed and sometimes angry.

Occasionally I see it as an opportunity to move forward and make some positive change’s in my life.

I am confident I have done nothing wrong… I am hopeful (but not certain) I will eventually be vindicated, and I am wondering if/when I am allowed to return to UBX Greenslopes whether I will actually want to.

(Update Friday Lunchtime)

Thanks for the Support

I had a number of my Gym Besties contact me to see why I hadn’t been training and see if I was OK…. When I explained what was going on, they were as shocked as I was :

  1. That someone had complained about me
  2. at how I had been treated
  3. that I was being left in the dark with no option to respond

I have subsequently contacted some of the other’s and they are stunned as well… Thanks VERY MUCH for he support guys (and girls).. feeling a bit better about the world just now 🙂

(Update Friday Afternoon)

“Permanantly Banned”

I’ve had an update from AJ… apparently UBX Human Resources have reviewed the complaint and decided to ban both myself and the claimant permanently from UBX Greenslopes … which I believe allows us to join another UBX gym, but prevents us from returning to Greenslopes for at least 12 months. This comes as a bit of a surprise because they still have not contacted me… I still don’t know what the complaint is… and I still have not been informed of the complaints process.

Not sure quite what they based their decision on … Did they talk to the claimant (they certainly didn’t communicate with me)?… How did they judge whether it was a legitimate complaint, and if so, who was at fault ?

Have they just decided it is all too hard and hoped that by banning us both the problem would just go away ?

I have reached out to UBX HR and asked of a copy of the process… including (if one exists) their Appeals process… more to come ??

(Update Friday Evening)

Its a Guy (apparently)

I’ve been making some enquiries, doing a little detective work and asking around my gym buddies, and although I still don’t yet know what the actual complaint is, it seems that the complainant is a guy (NOT a girl as I had assumed).

Discovering this has probably shocked me more than anything else so far… I had assumed the complaint would be related to a female feeling uncomfortable about something I had said or done… I have even less of a clue what I could have possibly done to offend a guy – and why he couldn’t have just told me there was a problem so we could have resolved it simply…

In some ways I am greatly relieved that I hadn’t somehow overstepped the mark when chatting with a girl.. I am always very careful to try and keep everything appropriate, so was horrified when I thought I may have offended a girl. I’m also glad that it rules out one of my ex-best-buddies as a possible complainant 🙂

(Update Saturday)

Nothing from UBX (yet)

Saturday morning, and nothing new really to report, but I am glad I am at peace with AJ from UBX Greenslopes. I am enjoying the support I am still getting from my gym buddies, and reading and responding to the comments. Some useful insights here, but overall most people seem to be as stunned as I am at the process (or lack thereof).

I (like most people apparently) am wondering how I could have been banned for something that I didn’t even notice doing at the time ?

I’ve been training most of the week with F45 and am actually really enjoying it (and being challenged by the new training regime)… I will probably also check out the local Body Fit Training too.

No Response from UBX HR yet, but I guess this is the weekend. I hope they don’t think ignoring me is a viable strategy, as I am now focusing my anger and frustration on them… Now that I have all this extra time on my hands, I have already started putting in place a few of the “court of public opinion” strategies suggested in the comments.

(Update Sunday)

What Would Be “Fair”

Sunday and still nothing from UBX, but I have been pondering some of the feedback and comments I’ve received, and started to wonder about what I would consider a “fair” outcome…

Obviously I’d like to know what I had apparently done wrong.. I guess then I could decide whether or not banning me was fair.

I am guessing the complainant wasn’t expecting to be banned, and I don’t actually think (as long as he believed he had a legitimate reason to complain) this is fair either.

It’s certainly not fair that UBX Greenslopes has lost 2 members, and it may not even be fair for me to air UBX’s dirty laundry… but at the moment I have few options – and if the only positive outcome to this is for UBX to improve their complaints process (so it doesn’t leave members worried, anxious and depressed) then I reckon its a win.

One of the comments to this post asked what would happen if the complainant withdrew the complaint… I don’t know if this is an option, or would make a difference.

I don’t know who has complained or what the problem was, but I am still unaware of any gripes or issues with ANY member (male OR female). I’d be quite happy to talk to them, understand their concerns, apologise and sort out an amicable resolution… and if that involves us avoiding or ignoring each other, fair enough.

I don’t believe either of us should be banned, or that UBX Greenslopes should lose 2 members in an already tough economic climate, but UBX really do need to sort out their complaints process…

(Update Monday)

Sometimes You Have to be Pushed !!!

Wow its only been a week – but feels like a month. Still waiting/hoping to hear from UBX HR – but not holding my breath.

I’ve been training at F45 for the last week and to be honest, I’ve been loving the training, being physically challenged, and all the positive interactions with members is like a breath of fresh air.

Although I do miss my UBX buddies, I am already feeling more welcome at F45 than I have for a long time at UBX … I guess that sometimes you need to be pushed out of your comfort zone to make positive changes in your life.

I’ve been re-evaluating my priorities, and at this stage am likely to continue with F45 (although I should probably give the local BFT a trial too). I would prefer to have my UBX membership reinstated, so I can from time to time catch up with my UBX Buddies (and also be able to justify continuing to work with AJ), but I can’t see myself returning to UBX full time.

I am still VERY focused on holding UBX accountable, and am determined to get to the bottom of this complaint.

(Update Monday afternoon – 1 week after suspension)

UBX HQ Responds…

I have heard back from UBX HQ late this afternoon… they’ve acknowledged that the way this has been handled has caused confusion and frustration and have initiated action “to investigate the initial member complaint further”. They have also promised to keep me up to date as they “speak with all of the relevant parties” and they work towards “the best resolution”.

It certainly doesn’t mean my membership will be reinstated… but seems to be a reasonable (if delayed) response for now. All I really want is a fair and reasonable outcome for all parties…. because at the moment EVERYONE seems to be suffering.

(Update Wednesday)

UBX HQ Responds ?? … NOT

I was in some way encouraged that UBX was “taking it seriously” when they eventually contacted me on Monday… but when they said they were contacting “all interested parties”… it seems that I wasn’t included in that list, because they have still not contacted me, and I am still being kept in the dark.

Apparently what they meant by “all interested parties” is everyone that I have allegedly pissed off or annoyed in the 4+ years I’ve been at the gym, because all of a sudden I have been told there are numerous other “complaints” – most of which I was completely unaware of.

UBX has essentially threatened to talk to everyone who has ever had any issue with me at the gym…

I have also been accused of “playing the victim”… but it’s hard to see it any other way when I still don’t know what I’ve been accused of…. If I’ve actually done something wrong, fair enough, I’ll acknowledge it, and cop the punishment. But I can’t accept (or fix) something that I don’t know.

It is pretty clear that there is no hope for this complaint to be dealt with objectively.. I am a thorn in the side of UBX, and now that this post is getting more attention, and gaining momentum, they just want it to go away… Unfortunately, threatening me is probably not the best approach.

Despite me asking repeatedly (from day one) what the UBX complaints process actually is, I have received nothing – except today confirmation from AJ that there is no appeals process.

I don’t want to embarrass UBX unnecessarily, but I think that UBX Members deserve to be told what the UBX complaints process entails, because at the moment it seems that UBX Staff, Owners and even UBX HQ don’t seem to know what it is. … And if there isn’t a defined complaints process, members should be VERY concerned that any action they take, whether unintentional, accidental , or otherwise could lead to them being banned.

(Update Thursday – 10 days after initial suspension)

Ding Ding….

I heard back from UBX late yesterday… via an email from AJ – the Franchisee owner of UBX Greenslopes…here are some of the highlights.

“After careful consideration and a thorough investigation into the complaint that was filed against you, I regretfully have to confirm the termination of your membership.”

Not sure how a “thorough investigation” would not include me… and I am unaware how “membership terminated” differs from “permanently banned” which was what I was told last week – either will prevent me from going to the gym I have attended almost daily for the last 4 years.

“I have been speaking to all relevant parties and after a thorough investigation I have determined that your actions were in violation of the terms of your membership agreement”

I wonder what actions those are?. because they still haven’t told me… and it seems that I don’t qualify as a “relevant party”

“I have been informed by the complainant that the matter is under legal advisement and as a result I cannot disclose any further specifics”

Sounds like a dodge to avoid explaining the “complaint”… surely I would have noticed if I had ben involved in some activity that warranted legal action ?

UBX HQ seem determined not to communicate with me directly – they are leaving all of that to the UBX Greenslopes Franchisee… so despite AJ’s assurances last week that he was “waiting to hear from UBX HR”, it appears that they are putting his head on the block to try and avoid further attention on UBX HQ… or perhaps it has really been personal all along ? Maybe its just a part of their complaints process ? (but I wouldn’t know because they still haven’t told me what that is).

I have been punished : suspended, permanently banned, and had my membership termninated.

I have been kept in the dark : not told the nature of the complaint, and not given an opportunity to respond.

I have been threatened : with exposure (which doesn’t concern me because I am not embarrassed or ashamed of any of my actions), and with legal action (bring it on, at least then they would need to inform me of the “complaint” and allow me to respond).

At this stage, UBX seem so desperate NOT to tell me what it is, I’m beginning to wonder whether the “complaint” is real at all… Was there really a complaint in the first place , If so, is it legitimate or fabricated ? Could it be a case of mistaken identity ?

I’ve been wondering what Danny Green (Australian professional boxer who held the WBA light-heavyweight title from 2007 to 2008 and also a co-founder of UBX) might do in my situation ?… I am certain he would not back down.. He would come back fighting – Hard.. so thats what I’m going to do too. I may have been forced to hang up my gloves, but I have certainly not thrown in the towel.

I have plenty of options, so unless UBX decide to start communicating sensibly about all this, I reckon we are just in round 3 or 4. :).

For now, I have asked (yet again) for details of the UBX complaint process and the nature of the complaint, and will give them a reasonable amount of time to respond before I escalate further.

(Update Friday – 11 days after initial suspension)

UBX Complaints Process – at Last

Well I have finally heard from a real person from UBX HQ… and they have finally provided me with a copy of the UBX Complaints Process. It is simple, clear and reasonable…. Not sure why it took them nearly 2 weeks to provide me with it (but I am guessing that it may not have existed until a day or two ago).

They state :

“Our goal is to manage all complaints in an open, accountable, responsive, fair, efficient, and effective way. We appreciate your feedback and will use it to improve our processes in the future.”

which is awesome, because my experience of their complaints process probably only ticked 2 of these boxes (efficient and effective).. they have failed miserably on the rest. I really do hope that they take my feedback on board to ensure that no other UBX Member (or complainant for that matter) has to suffer through the same traumatic experience I have.

They also explained, how the process was handled in my case… They said that the business owner of UBX Greenslopes received the initial complaint, carried out an investigation, and made a decision to terminate my membersip… They explicitly state that UBX HQ “were not involved in the decision to “ban” anyone from the club”…

Which is completely at odds to everything I had been told previously.

I was informed that the complaint was submitted direct to UBX HQ, was investigated by UBX HR (with input from UBX Greenslopes), and it was UBX HQ who made the decision to first initiate a Permanent Ban, and then “after reviewing with all interested parties” (but not me) decided to terminate my membership.

Something stinks here … someone is telling me bullshit … I’m just not sure whether UBX HQ is throwing AJ under the bus, or AJ is covering his arse… but in either case I have been misled and lied to by someone.

So What Did I Do ??

I still don’t know what I did that was so terrible that deserved being banned (or how I could have done it without noticing). I have (yet again) asked UBX to provide me with details of the complaint.. where, when, what (but not who)…

So far they have refused to provide this. Initially details of the complaint were denied on the grounds of “confidentiality”, and then, because the matter may be under “legal advisement”… UBX HQ have told me that they don’t actually know the details and have requested these from UBX Greenslopes..

I’d prefer not to make this a legal issue, but I am confident I’ve done nothing wrong, so if I need to escalate this further to shed some light on the complaint (and presumably, the complainant too), then so be it.

(Update Saturday – 12 days after initial suspension)

When is Enough, Enough ??

I have been asked why I keep pursuing this , why am I making such a drama, why dont I just suck it up and move on ??

Ask yourself…

  • If you were accused, and punished for something… but you didn’t know what it was, and had your doubts whether you’d actually done it… What would you do ?
  • If you had signficant changes forced onto your life, but werent told why, and were facing weeks or months of wondering what you had done wrong … What would you do ?

I actually believe that this situation (and my perseverance) has already had some positive outcomes :

  • on me.. It has forced me to try another gym (12 days straight so far) – where I am feeling more welcome, am being physically challenged … and am enjoying.. a LOT… It has motivated me to make some lifestyle changes : I dont have to drive 20 minutes to and from the gym every day… I get to sleep a bit longer… I’ve completely stopped taking pre-workout…
  • on UBX … I am actually impressed with their complaints policy (even though it clearly hasn’t been followed with me), and I actually believe (perhaps naively) their assurances that they will take my feedback on board.

But I do still need to know (for my own peace of mind), the TRUTH about the complaint.. Was their actually a real complaint, if so, what the allegation was… and then, if I am guilty of it, I can acknolwedge it, apologise for it, try to resolve it, and try not to repeat it.

At the moment the accounts of how this has been handled are so dramatically different between UBX HQ and the UBX Greenslopes Franchisee, that someone has to be lying to me.

Enough will be enough when I am satisfied that I know the truth about the complaint…

(Update Wednesday – 16 days after initial suspension)

Well… I’ve taken a few days to chillax and consider… and given AJ and UBX a chance to do the same… but nothing much seems to have changed.

Despite UBX HQ :

  • asking AJ to provide them with details of the Complaint
  • advising me to liaise directly with AJ,
  • and instructing AJ to provide me with more information,

…I am still no closer to finding out what I have been accused of… and in fact AJ now seems to be refusing to communicate with me at all – his most recent communication regarding the complaint (last Friday) was “Stop messaging me!!”.

I have taken time to more carefully review the UBX Complaints Process, and whilst my initial opinion was that it was simple, concise and reasonable, I now realise that it includes nothing at all about procedures for the Complainee (if – as in my case, the complaint was about a person)… So if a member complained about another gym member, or member of staff, it doesn’t address their role, rights or responsibilities at all. Even as it stands though, the UBX complaint process has (very clearly) NOT been followed.

My main concern, is still that I have never been told what I have been accused of doing, or been asked for my input, or been given a right to reply, or an opportunity apologise if necessary, or even learn from my mistakes.

I cannot think of ANY situation (in the civilized, free world at least) which involves someone being accused and punished, where they would not be made aware of the issue. Imagine if you received a speeding/parking fine but not told where or when it occurred, or you were arrested by the police and not told why ? There would be an uproar.

UBX Members (and Staff) Beware

If I was still a UBX Member I’d be very concerned…

At the moment UBX HQ seem to be supporting this flawed process and you run the real risk, that if you are accused of something (whether it is true or not) you may have no right to state your case… It appears they expect you to just shut up, accept the punishment and go away …

What Does ChatGPT Think ?

In the course of my work I have been recently doing some investigation into AI learning and in particular ChatGPT… so I thought I might see what ChatGPT thought about all this by asking it “I have been banned from the gym following a complaint… what should I do ?“

I thought that it came up with a pretty reasonable set of options, however, of the 8 suggested steps I am only able to do :

# 1 – Stay Calm and Respectful – which I hope I have mostly done
# 8 – Consider finding a new gym – which I have definitely done

Unfortunately all the other suggestions are dependent on me actually knowing something about the complaint … (see here for ChatGPTs response in full).

While I was on a roll, I also asked ChatGPT “how do I publicise an issue I have with my gym” and was given 10 suggestions on how to address, promote and publicise my concerns… some of these I have already initiated, but there were a few which are worth considering further 🙂

Update Monday – 3 weeks after initial Suspension

Still No Change… I am still Banned, my UBX memberships has still been Terminated…. I still don’t know the nature of the “complaint” (or if it actually existed), and have not been given the opportunity to present my side of the story as part of the “UBX Complaints Process”.

Time to Escalate…

Update ~ 7 weeks after initial Suspension

So… what’s been happening ??

I’ve been pestered by people asking for an update … so here it is 🙂

Despite an ongoing investigation by the Office of Fair Trading about how this “complaint” has been handled by the owner of UBX Greenslopes, I am still not really any closer to finding out the truth of what happened… and maybe never will.

Sometimes the simplest answer is correct though – the most likely scenario seems to be the one that pretty much everyone I’ve spoken to from the outset has insisted is the reason (but I had just not wanted to believe it).

It seems that an Ex-Best Friend and gym buddy of mine, and the Gym owner have colluded and concocted the complaint, as an excuse to get me out of the gym so she can come back training without having to face me.

AJ had assured me this isn’t true, but most everything else he has told me has proven to be a lie, so why should I believe him ?

Regrets ?

Not really … despite a lot of angst, anxiety and frustration, over the last months, I have recently turned 60 and am fitter and healthier than I have been for 30 years – some of this I attribute to the training I did with UBX… But I have joined a new gym (that I am loving, and getting better results)… I have maintained friendships with some of my old UBX Gym Buddies, and have developed a whole bunch of new gym buddies at F45.

I am disappointed that my ex-friend didn’t seem to care enough about the “friendship” to explain the issues or try and resolve them… she’s not the person I thought she was. I suspect that AJ may have some regrets that he didn’t think it all through first, I wish him every success with the gym and his side business, but have doubts he can ultimately make it a success.

I do regret dragging UBX Headquarters into this, they have mostly been helpful and professional, and probably as much victims of this as I am… I am certainly not claiming to be blameless, I am sure that I have rubbed some people up the wrong way.. and perhaps a ban is even an appropriate outcome…but the way this process has been handled is just appalling… I hope this post goes some way in explaining my perspective, and that any future, legitimate, UBX member complaints are dealt with appropriately.

12RND Fitness Training Camp “Competition” – Fair or Farce ??

12RND Fitness Training Camp “Competition” – Fair or Farce ??

by | Oct 1, 2021 | Exercise, Milestones

I apologise for the length of this post … It started out fairly long anyway… but has evolved (and is still evolving) as I receive comments and feedback from readers and as new information (from 12RNDs Fitness) comes to light… I did consider creating a new post, but thought it better (and fairer) to keep it all together so it could all be examined in context…

below is a brief timeline of events / updates :

  • 26 Jul : 11// Training Camp Starts
  • 4 Sep : 11// Training Camp Completes
  • 29 Sep : 11// Training Camp “Winners” announced
  • 1 Oct : This Post originally published
  • 17 Oct : Updated with extra info
  • 19 Oct : Apology via Phone from 12Rnds CEO
  • 20 Oct : Email from 12Rnds CEO
  • 21 Oct : follow up Phone Call from 12Rnds CEO
  • 24 Oct : Updated with my reaction to 12RNDs Responses

It is no secret that I have been a big fan of 12Rnd Fitness and have published a number of posts explaining some of the things I enjoy about their gyms. One of the things I did like, is that several times a year they hold a nation-wide Training Camp (6 week challenge), and as a motivator for members they offer prizes and awards for the “top performing” participants in recognition of their efforts.

Over the last couple of years, I have participated in most of these challenges, but never really took them too seriously, or pushed myself too hard… The latest 6 week challenge however (July to September 2021) was different…. Despite regular workouts (generally 6 times a week) my weight had plateaued and over the last few months had started creeping up… so I decided to take this challenge seriously, and not just push myself with exercise, but also be strict on food and diet as well. I was curious to see what impact good diet would have.

I set myself a target of losing 6Kg and 6cms …. and for the 6 weeks I worked hard – increased my exercise level by about 30% (7 days a week 1 1/2 to 2hrs a day) and whilst I wasn’t super strict on food…. I was MUCH more careful about what I was eating…

As per the Training Camp competition guidelines, I did the before and after photos, benchmarks and body composition analysis scans (these were stated as the criteria for judging the national competition)… and to be honest was astounded by my transformation.

My 6 Week Transformation

Over the 6 weeks I smashed my 6Kg weight loss goal… I actually lost 9.9Kg of Body Fat (11.4%), put on 1.7Kg in Muscle Mass… and reduced my waist measurement by more than 14cm.

I also :

  •  Improved my 1:20 Row Benchmark by 22m to a total of 410m
  •  Improved my 3:00 Push Up into Clean and Press by 5 Reps to a total of 42 reps
  •  Improved my 15 Cal Ski erg by 8 seconds to a total of 33 seconds

National Competition Winner ???

I actually thought I might even be in with a real chance for a win in the National Competition, as previous winners simply hadn’t achieved these sort of body transformation results :

  • #10 male winner lost 0.4kg total body weight and 3.9% body fat
  • #9 lost 10.5kg in total body weight and 10.3% body fat!
  • #8 lost 7.9kg, dropped 7.3% body fat and gained 0.5kg of muscle
  • #7 lost 6.5kg and reduced his body fat by 6.1%

The winners of the national 12rnd competition were announced 29 September… Unfortunately, I didn’t win … it seems that my results just weren’t good enough… Fair enough I thought…. the winners and runners up must all have achieved some truly amazing transformations….so I was VERY keen to see the winners results.

Update 19 Oct : One of the problems admitted to by the 12RNDs CEO is that some winner submissions went missing, because of an “administrative error” … I know of at least one other participant (also with amazing transformation results) who also questioned the judging process and whose submission also disappeared…. Neither of our applications (and I have to wonder how many others ??) were even considered by the judging panel for 11// Training Camp !!!!

Unfortunately… and very frustratingly… despite the fact that stats have been announced for all previous challenges…. Although they have published some Before/After photos… the Body Composition and Benchmark stats for this particular 6 week challenge have not (yet ??) been published. (I have asked if they plan to publish these, but they have not yet responded).

Update 17 Oct : Nearly 3 weeks later and I have tried to contact 12rnds several times about publication of results, but despite promises of a “human” response within 1 day – I am still waiting…. I know of a number of other members (and even Franchisees) who have raised concerns and they have also been ignored…

Update 19 Oct : Finally heard back from 12Rnds. Michael Jordan the CEO gave me a call (Interestingly the day after I sent them a link to this post and they became aware of how many people had been reading it) … more Updates added below, but at the moment I am not quite sure how to react to his response so want to sit on it for a bit while I calm down…

Training Camp Competition

The stated judging criteria for the Major Prize Winners of 11// 12RND Fitness Training Camp (6 week Challenge) was :

+ Before + After Photos
+ Body Composition Changes
+ Benchmark Improvements

However the only justification that has (so far) been provided for selecting the winners has been their before and after photos (which, to be honest are good… but not great). I am (of course) biased, but are pretty pleased with my own before/after photos, and believe (as do most people who have seen them) that they show more significant transformation than the “winners” photos. I guess I don’t fall within the demographic of their target market ??

Update 19 Oct : The 12RNDs CEO has admitted that “at some stage” a decision was made to change the rules of the competition so that the Major Prize ONLY took into account the Before/After Photos, and the Runner Up Prize would apparently include the Body Composition and Benchmark Stats.. This was apparently done so that clubs/members experiencing lockdowns as a result of COVID would not be disadvantaged… In principle I support this… they certainly deserve to be recognised… my BIG concern though is that 12RNDsy changed the rules but didn’t actually tell any of the participants about it. Michael said that they realised a rule change might be “controversial”… It seems to me that they made a decision to keep the rule change low profile and they just hoped no-one would notice ??
It is not clear exactly when the rules changed, but I have reviewed every email I received about the Training Camp… and right up to the final week (week 6) update, the Major Prize criteria was still stated to be based on Photos, Body Composition & Benchmarks !!!!

I am hopeful that the Body Composition and Benchmarking stats will at some stage be announced… and that the winners stats are amazing… but at the moment, it seems that as well as the stated selection criteria, there may be some other (undisclosed) factors at play…

Perhaps “judging” also takes into account the status of the club, and uses Training Camp as an opportunity to promote and raise the profile of certain clubs ??

Irrespective of winning…I am very happy with my own results… but it would be nice to be able to compare them with those of the winners… and it does leave a sour taste in my mouth wondering whether the judging is actually fair… or is the whole competition a bit of a farce ??… designed as a marketing tool rather than a proper competition based on the criteria they specified??

I guess 12RND Fitness can decide whoever they want to choose as winners – without having to justify it…. but if they plan to use their Training Camps as simply a marketing exercise, they probably shouldn’t pretend that Body Scan and Benchmark Data is taken into consideration.

Does it Really Matter ??

The more members and clubs that I talk to about this, the more I am realising how big an issue this really is… and that it may have been a problem for some time.

In asking around… it seems that there have been questions raised about the validity of winners for some of the past 12rnd Fitness 6 week challenges as well… with other participants in past challenges with amazing results (often apparently significantly better than the winners) not being recognised or rewarded. A number of people from a number of clubs that I have spoken to, have also expressed surprise and concerns over the selection of winners from past events.

I suppose that a win probably generates a bit of excitement at the “winning” clubs, it provides a marketing opportunity for them, and may even result in a short term boost to memberships… However, I suspect that if 12RND Fitness looked at the numbers, they would see a much more significant (and longer term) drop in motivation, participation, and probably memberships at many other clubs where Training Camp participants (who felt that they could/should have won) felt overlooked or ignored.

I know at some clubs there has been a drop in participation in challenges… (which I now realise may be because of this issue… from earlier Training Camps they had participated in…)

Fair or Farce ??

A Farce can be defined as “an empty or patently ridiculous event” and despite the fact that members can and have benefited individually as a result of the effort they put in during a 6 week challenge…. as a “competition” the 12RNDs Training Camp results could be considered farcical and certainly do not seem to be “fair” according to their own competition rules.

Future Training Camps ??

Unfortunately, I believe that many 12RND members seem to have lost confidence in the 12RND Training Camp judging process.

At the moment I personally, am disinclined to participate in future 12RND Fitness Training Camp “competitions”. However, if I do, it will be as a personal challenge, because the lack of transparency and questionable judging process means that “competing” for prizes and recognition is no longer a motivating factor.

Update : 17 October… It’s now 6 weeks since the last Training Camp, and 3 weeks since the “winners” were “announced”… 12RNDS have still not disclosed the winners Body Composition or Benchmark stats, but have been heavily promoting the //12 Training camp (commencing 25 October) and interestingly have declared the same judging criteria as previous challenges – i.e. :

An expert panel of judges will select a Male and Female Major Prize Winner at the end of the Training Camp based on their overall transformation, body composition changes and fitness benchmark improvements. An additional Male and Female Minor Prize Winner will be selected based on their Before and After visual transformation.

Lets hope that they actually do announce the results this time (but don’t hold your breath)….

Runner Up Winner Stats Announced

Finally, nearly 6 weeks after the completion of 11// Training Camp, 12RNDs started to announce the Body Composition and Benchmark Stats for the Minor Prize winners (which because of the unpublicised Competition Rule Change do apparently take these results into account… some good numbers, but unfortunately (for us), not as good as at least 2 entries I am aware of that weren’t considered because of an “administrative error” :(.

You would think that 12RNDS would be able to offer more than excuses and a private apology to those that missed out… but apparently not..

My Response…

Since hearing from the 12RNDS CEO, I have intentionally held off publishing my reaction for a few days. I wanted to see if they would step up to the plate to fix this issue, and also wanted to cool off a bit..

An Apology ??

I did eventually get an explanation and apology by phone and email from Michael Jordan, as did another member who had raised similar concerns of their own several weeks earlier.  Michael’s apology seemed sincere, he seemed to care,  and I do appreciate the effort… but a number of things in his explanation just didn’t ring true, and why did it take so long for them to respond in the first place ?  I am sure the 12RND CEO is sorry, but is he sorry for the situation, or sorry that this issue seems to getting such a high profile publicly ??

The Excuses

According to the 12RNDs CEO this is a highly unusual situation which occurred as a result of a number of issues :

  1. COVID resulted in lockdown of a number of Gyms (particularly in NSW and VIC)
    Some gyms which started the 6 week challenge went into lockdown so some participants were not able to complete their benchmarks or body composition scans.  We all understand that many gyms and their members are facing tough times at the moment and I think that everyone would agree that those affected by Lockdown should ideally not be negatively impacted, but : 
  2. They decided to “Change the Rules” part-way through (and not tell anyone)
    Apparently, part way through the 6 weeks 12RNDS Management decided to change the competition rules, so that the International Prize would ONLY be based on Before/After Photos and the runner up prize would be based on Photos/Body Composition Transformation/ Benchmarks.  It is not clear when these rules changed because although Michael assures me that participants were notified, I have not been able to find anything supporting this… each of the weekly Training Camp update emails (even the one for the final week 6) clearly state that the International Prize would be based on Photos/Body Transformation Stats/Benchmarks… Michael admitted that they realised this could be controversial, which I would have thought should make it even more important to keep people informed… perhaps the rules changed after the challenge was over, and they just hoped no one would notice ??. 
  3. Some submissions  “got lost” and were not considered, because of “administrative errors”
    Apparently some submissions (that were correctly submitted via the process defined by 12RNDs) were misplaced or overlooked and therefore did not make it through to the judging process… I was told that my submission was flagged as Spam (“possibly because it contained semi-naked before/after photos” – but didn’t everyones ??).  I know of at least one other application that went missing and they were told that this was due to an administrative error…  Who knows how many other applications didn’t make it to the judging at all ??  In both these cases Michael admitted that these applications were serious contenders for awards.  

The Outcomes ??

  1. Michael says that selection of The International Prize Winners by Before/After photos ONLY was a One Off caused by Lockdowns, and that past and future judging really will be based on Photos/Body Composition/Benchmarking as advertised (although what happens next time there are more lockdowns isn’t clear)
  2. 12RNDs will apparently review and change the submission process so that future submissions should not go missing again (but that doesn’t really help those who were overlooked in the past)   

I suggested that a fair option might be for any submissions which went missing because of the 12RNDs “administration error”, be included in the 12//Training Camp judging, however the CEO very quickly shut this down because it would “raise questions about their integrity”. This is an interesting response, because as far as I am concerned that is exactly what this whole issue is about…

Surely if “Integrity” was a concern, the right thing to do would be to ensure that all submitted entries were judged against the original (and heavily promoted) rules ???  They have refused to do this.

12RND decided to change the rules but did not communicate this.  When the results were questioned, they claimed that some submissions (which as it turned out would have been winning entries) had disappeared, so were not included in the judging process.  They also only responded/reacted to concerns, several weeks after the fact – once they realised that the issue was starting to become public.  12RNDs management don’t seem to be concerned about individual members or clubs suffering as a result of these issues, but they are concerned about the reputation of 12RNDs Fitness.

My Final Say ??

Despite my bad experience with the judging process of the 11// Training Camp, I would certainly encourage 12RND members to participate in future Training Camps  (and despite my experience, am still an advocate of it within our own club)… A 6 week challenges is a great way to motivate yourself,  and you can achieve great results… but don’t necessarily focus on “the prize” and ensure that you :

  • scrutinise the submission and judging process
  • get confirmation that your submission has been received
  • and if anything seems fishy… call them out about it  and complain… and don’t accept “Sorry, we messed up … Better luck next time” as their response !!!

I appreciate that 12RNDS have admitted their mistakes (privately), recognised that some members have been overlooked, and apologised. Obviously the CEO is more concerned about the reputation of 12RNDS than the experience of a couple of members, and I have to respect that, because that’s his job.

I didn’t write this post for recognition or reward, I simply hoped it would highlight an issue and result in it being fixed…. I believe that 12RND do recognise that they could and should have done better…  I hope they have taken positive steps to make sure it doesn’t happen again, and I (and others) will be keeping a very close watch in the future…

All in all a WIN for everyone (I hope) ?

22 Months Update

22 Months Update

by | Jun 9, 2020 | Diabetes, Exercise, Food & Diet, Milestones, Post-Surgery

22 months since my gastric Bypass Operation – and my weight has finally started to level out.

At the moment it has been as low as 80KG, but is currently stabilised at around 82KG… which is remarkable because when I first started this journey I had “hoped” that I would get down to 95KG 🙂

I am still considered “Overweight” by the BMI scale… my “ideal weight being under 73Kg – apparently … but BMI does not take into account muscle mass… which I have increased significantly. (note: most 1st grade NRL players are also considered Overweight according to their BMI).

The graph below shows my weigh loss journey since a Gastric Bypass operation in September 2018.

Whilst my weight seems to have stabilised, I am not actually eating particularly well…. Certainly the quantities I am eating are significantly less (I still can’t physically manage a large meal without feeling uncomfortable), but am confident, (if I start eating healthier”), that I could probably drop another 5Kg. Not sure if I can be bothered at the moment… but would be interesting to see if I can get down closer to my “normal” BMI weight range

In the last 22 months I have :

  • Lost over 50Kg in weight
  • Been off ALL Diabetes medication (since the day of the operation) and have been officially Diabetes Free for more than 10 months
  • Continued going to Gym (except for the Coronavirus restrictions), and are currently going 5 or 6 times a week
  • Never Felt Better !!!

No Longer Obese !!! (Officially)

No Longer Obese !!! (Officially)

by | Nov 4, 2019 | Food & Diet, Milestones, Post-Surgery, Weight Loss Surgery Research

45Kg and 58 weeks after surgery … I am finally No Longer Obese !!!
(and I have not been down to this weight for more than 30 years)…

According to my BMI, I am officially not Obese any more … but I am still Overweight (which I guess still makes me a Fat Bastard).

About Body Mass Index (BMI)

Body Mass Index (BMI) is the most common (and simplest) way of measuring whether or not your are overweight. But in recent years, more researchers argue that it’s not the most accurate way to measure body weight. For years, scientists have said that BMI can’t distinguish between fat and muscle, which tends to be heavier and can tip more toned individuals into overweight status, even if their fat levels are low.

BMI also doesn’t take into account different types of fat, each of which can have different metabolic effects on health. BMI cannot take into consideration, for example, where the body holds fat. Belly fat, which is known as visceral fat, is more harmful than fat that is simply sitting under the skin.

Your BMI is determined by a relatively simple calculation using your height and weight. The formula is BMI = kg/ m2 – where kg is your weight in kilograms and m2 is your height in metres squared.

So my BMI is currently 88.4/1.72 2  = 29.88 – which allows me to just scrape out of the Obese range (over 30) and into the overweight range (25-30)… A BMI of 25.0 or more is overweight, while the “healthy” range is 18.5 to 24.9 …so my “healthy” range is 55-74Kg (apparently)

So Why BMI ?

BMI is still the preferred way to measure weight and evaluate obesity primarily because it is a relatively easy measurement for doctors to take during an office visit. Taking a person’s height and weight and plugging it into an equation produces a number that informs doctors about whether their patients are at high, low or no risk when it comes to weight-related health problems.

Using the BMI measure alone, an athlete such as the 19yr old up and coming Broncos powerhouse prop – Payne Haas – would be considered Obese (119Kg, 194cm = a BMI of 31)

There are better ways to measure body fat … that provide more useful readings on how likely a person’s weight will contribute to chronic health problems. CT scans and MRIs can provide a clearer glimpse at the body’s make-up by separating out fat from muscle, for example. But these are expensive and involved compared to stepping on a scale. 

So without a viable way to change how we measure body fat, for now, BMI is still probably the best option.

Wow What a Year !!

Wow What a Year !!

by | Sep 19, 2019 | Diabetes, Milestones, Post-Surgery, Uncategorized

12 months exactly since my gastric Bypass Operation – and what a fantastic year I have had…

I have :

  • Lost over 40Kg in weight
  • Stopped all Diabetes Medication
  • Drastically reduced my Blood Sugar and am now officially Diabetes Free
  • Joined a Gym (and am getting a little obsessed with it but am LOVING it)
  • Significantly improved my muscle mass
  • Been “dumped” by my Endocrinologist and Bariatric Surgeon… and even my GP doesn’t really want to know me 🙂
  • Never Felt Better !!!

49 Weeks – Feeling Fantastic

49 Weeks – Feeling Fantastic

by | Sep 4, 2019 | Diabetes, Exercise, Food & Diet, Milestones, Post-Surgery

Its been a little over 3 months since my last post… but how many times can you say “things are going great” ??

I’ve continued to lose weight and are now just over 90Kg…. That’s a total weight loss of 40Kg or nearly 1/3rd of my original body weight 🙂

Gym Junkie

I’ve continued going to the Gym… and am loving it…. In fact, for a while there I got a little obsessive and was going 8 or 9 times a week, but have scaled that back to just 5 or 6 … which I’ve found is actually more effective and efficient – my gym sessions are now longer and more powerful and my body is recovering better between sessions.

Since joining the gym – 7 months ago – I have lost an additional 10Kg in weight, which is pretty significant given that my muscle mass has also substantially increased.

Blood Results

I did a regular follow up with my nutritionist today… and all my blood tests are fantastic… except for Iron which is a bit low. This is completely normal (and expected) after a Gastric Bypass and I will continue to take Iron supplements (Maltofer) daily along with my multivitamins, although I can now stop taking Calcium supplements.

I am still not taking ANY diabetes (49 weeks since surgery), and my average blood sugar reading (HbA1c as per stats below) is continuing to drop.

Blood Sugar (HbA1c)

HbA1c is a blood test that is used to help diagnose and monitor people with diabetes. It is also sometimes called a haemoglobin A1c, glycated haemoglobin or glycosylated haemoglobin.  It shows the average level blood sugar levels over the past 2 to 3 months.

Target Weight ?

I can expect to continue losing weight for another 6 months or so… although the rate of weight loss will slow down.

I have already lost more than I had hoped for, but at 90Kg and 172cm… my BMI (31) still puts me at borderline Obese…. I am now hoping to lose another 5 or 10kg – with a provisional target weight between 80-85Kg… This would still mean I was considered Overweight…. but at 172cm, the suggested “healthy” weight is considered to be between 54 and 72 Kg… which to me seems absurdly “skinny”.

So far, even though the quantity of food I eat has significantly reduced (I just can’t physically eat anywhere near what I used to), I have to admit that I’ve not been particularly careful about the types of food I eat.

I have decided that once I get below 90Kg (which should be any week now) I will make a conscious effort to make smarter choices about the types of food I eat and this should help me get closer to that 80Kg target 🙂